Duration 4:21

Teaching Morality In Schools | Anton-MD | The Atheist Experience 25.11

by The Atheist Experience

3 017 watched

0

115

Published 19 Mar 2021

SHOW TIME-STAMPS 00:00 Intro And What's New With Dave Warnock 06:42 Joseph-NV | Evolution And Interbreeding Species 25:41 Alejandro-CA | You Can't Say I Don't Know 43:03 Paw-FL | Exorcising A Demon 58:52 Elizabeth-(UK) | Christians Lack Empathy 1:08:51 Anton-MD | Teaching Morality In Schools 1:13:23 Paul-MI | The Arbiter Of Morality 1:25:10 Lee-CA | I Feel Like I Earned This Affliction 1:31:32 Outro SHOW NOTES Welcome back to The Atheist Experience. This Sunday we have Dave Warnock back with us and Jim Barrows hosting. Such a pleasure to have have Mr. Warnock back, check out more at www.daveoutloud.com! Up first, Joseph from NV asks why humans can’t interbreed with humans since we share 98% DNA, given that other animals that are similar can interbreed. We recommend doing some more scientific research, you haven’t come close to proving evolution wrong. You misunderstand genetics and evolution. Even if you disprove evolution today, which you can’t, how does that prove god? Alejandro in CA asks if there is a third state other than exists/does not exist, arguing you can’t say I don’t know. There are 3 positions you can take on any claim. Accept the claim, accept the claim as false, or say I don’t know. Atheism is a response to a claim of god/s, not a statement that there is no god. No one has presented sufficient evidence to believe in a god, so our position is we don’t know until the claim is proven. Paw in FL claims he witnessed an exorcist of a demon and he received a miraculous healing of his broken toe. You need to think more about your god’s selective healing, when we have people dying from disease or famine across the globe….but he is going to heal your toe. Even if we received a healing, you couldn’t conclude that god did it. Elizabeth in The UK joined a church and after her son died of covid 19, they were only concerned with his beliefs and said he was going to hell and that any good mother would make sure he made it to heaven. We are so sorry. God job telling them off, we wouldn’t want to be in heaven with those people either. Check out recovering from religion. Anton in MD asks if morality should be taught in school? We agree, they should teach more ethics and epistemology in schools as long as they don't attach religion to it. We have a lot more ethical questions today than we did. Paul in MI asks who decides what is moral given we don’t have an arbiter for morality. We base morality on empathy and happiness/wellbeing. You think hell is moral? It’s not justifiable to have an infinite punishment for a finite “crime”, not that disbelief is a crime. We reject the concept of sin, let alone infinite sin. If you would kill your own kid if a god told you, you are immoral. Lastly, Lee in CA doesn’t believe and was diagnosed with apraxia, he can’t shake that sense that he has earned this affliction. Sounds like you still have baggage from those beliefs. Dave quotes Maya Angelou “Do the best you can do until you know better, when you know better, do better.” Life happens and sometimes people get sick, live the best life you can and try not to look back. Carpe the f!?king diem! That’s all for this week. Stay safe, get vaccinated, continue to wear masks, and we’ll see ya next week! Call the show on Sundays 4:30pm-6:00pm CT: 1-512-991-9242 or use your computer 💻 http://tiny.cc/callaxp ► Don't like commercials? Become a patron for ad-free content & more: https://www.patreon.com/theatheistexperience ► Podcast versions of the show may be found at: https://www.spreaker.com/show/theatheistexperience ► Atheist Experience merch can be found at: http://bit.ly/aenmerch ► Become a YouTube member: /channel/UCprs0DXUS-refN1i8FkQkdg/join ► Join the ACA Fan Discord: https://tiny.cc/acadiscord ------- WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE? The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin. VISIT THE ACA'S OFFICIAL WEB SITE http://www.atheist-community.org (The Atheist Community of Austin) NOTES TheAtheistExperience is the official channel of The Atheist Experience. "The Atheist Experience" is a trademark of the ACA. The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin. Opening Theme: Shelley Segal "Saved" http://www.shelleysegal.com/ Limited use license by Shelley Segal Copyright © 2011 Shelley Segal Oh Canada: Music By: Beta Records Link: https://goo.gl/peHHCX Copyright © 1997-2021 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.

Category

Show more

Comments - 74

@

@jns83933 years ago Morality can discussed in school without making declarations of what is right or wrong. It's the thought processes and critical thinking that needs to be taught. 17
@

@MG-ot2yr3 years ago There was a study that found kids raised in non-religious households were more altruistic than kids raised with religion. 5
@

@Steve-hu9gw3 years ago Okay, former teacher here. Note the correct answer:
A school is a mini society. No school, as no society, can function without the promulgation and maintenance of certain basic ethical standards and goals. Without some basic notions of honoring and respecting human worth and dignity, any society or school quickly devolves into an orgy of unrestrained violence and chaos. Trust me. Even with some basic ethical standards, more days than not … . I speak from experience. To fantasize that teachers can leave all this to parents and guardians at home is precisely that, to fantasize in some la-la land existing solely in one’s own mind. The fact is that, during the school year, children spend most of their waking hours at school. Most of their ethical conflicts will occur at school. Most of their physical and emotional conflicts will occur at school. They must all be dealt with at school. There is no escaping the fact that teachers and administrators will in fact be inculcating and enforcing ethical standards at school. The only question is whether they will do so openly and directly, and whether any kind of course will be set up to address it. I don’t think courses are at all required, but the open discussion, inculcation, and enforcement of basic ethics is very helpful. Just stick to basic more-or-less interpersonal ethics and leave anything specifically religious out of it, to the extent possible.
Yes, I was triggered. ... 6
@

@bidragandeorsak3 years ago Moral is the practice of ethics. Ethics is the theory of moral.
As a Swede, for me it has no religious conotations.
Also, working with kids, you can NOT teach moral. It is in all we are and how we relate to each other. ... 4
@

@stephenland93613 years ago I do recall being taught a smattering of morality in school. However, I think I learned far more about morality by simply interacting with all the other kids, especially on the playground. It was a long process. 1
@

@tommystyx3 years ago Morality is not a class in school it's something you are constantly learning all your life and part of that takes place in school.
@

@blueredingreen10 months ago Morality is learnt by just interacting with others. But it would help to give people formal frameworks so their morality isn't just what they personally feel is right, based on their upbringing (because that's how bad ideas stick around for generations), but that they have some tools to question this (which also helps prevent bad ideas from spreading).
This is also part of critical thinking and skepticism, part of questioning why you do what you do, feel what you feel, believe what you believe, and do what you do. Learning that, I would argue, is much more important than formally being taught morality. ...
@

@artistjoh3 years ago Theists are so blinkered that they automatically assume that the morality they mean is their personal interpretation of their god. As soon as you say “I agree, and I think we should implement the morality of Thor and the Halls of Valhalla immediately” they think that is silly, and they cannot understand that the morality of their god is just as silly. ... 4
@

@JesusUnfollower3 years ago Totally agree. Epistemology should be taught in schools. 2
@

@chainclaw073 years ago This was a good call and distinction ethics vs morality. Also if a theist advocates for their theistic morals being taught just ask if another theistic moral should be taught instead and how do we reconcile that? By presenting and teaching ethics that are demonstrable and can be agreed upon. And not pointing to a faithbased idea because what if I have another faith? ... 1
@

@duncanbryson11673 years ago How about changing the word to ethics? 1
@

@stephenjackson77972 years ago Teach ethics, it is more formal and more definable.
@

@happymaskedguy19433 years ago Morality for me is a question of 'ought to' - it has a rigid, inflexible quality, while at the same time being extremely nebulous (probably why so many theists latch onto it).
As Jim says, the teaching of ethics via epistemology is a much better model, as the fluidity of a question is framed only by its individual or interacting circumstances. It doesn't rely on someone arbitrarily assigning a broad solution based on 'ought to' ideology.
More often than not there is no 'right' answer, which is something theists simply will not tolerate. Uncertainty for them is not an option. ...
@

@Germatti134893 years ago You can teach a child right and wrong by reading stories then discussing what should have been done. They should also go back to teaching kids how to cook, take care of a checkbook/bank statement, and shop. I cut the tip of my finger in shop class but I learned a valuable lesson. 👵 ... 1
@

@mjallen13083 years ago I don’t see why morality can’t be discussed in line with other thought experiments as well as a stand-alone topic related to how to treat ppl that is beneficial to the health and well-being of society even though that doesn’t preclude discussion of selfishness which is not inherently wrong. ...
@

@loodlebop3 years ago Pretty sure morality is taught in school already on a basic level
@

@lukewojtanowicz19913 years ago Kids do learn morality in school, usually from interaction with other kids. 3
@

@rageofheaven3 years ago No, we have a hard enough time teaching kids how to read as it is.
@

@hdub80933 years ago Morality should be taught, yes, but from which perspective? what if it conflicts with the morality kids are being taught at home?... if it's basic morality then it may have a point being taught in schools. Secular ethics miay be a better subject to teach ...
@

@Ablestreet3 years ago You have to first define morality. If you are thinking of using a religious text as the source of morality teaching then the answer is hell no!! 1
@

@Comrade_Tokoloshe3 years ago Morality should be taught by example at home.
@

@Schyla43 years ago For me, since morality is subjective, it would really depend on what we are teaching. We would all have to be in agreement on what we want our kids to be taught. I think most of us could agree on easy topics like murder, but what about moral topics that many people don't agree on? And then the real question is can you even teach morality? Could you teach someone that it's morally wrong to abandon children or is that something they develop themselves to be wrong as they grow older? How would you teach them about morality on subjects like abortion? The answer is obvious for some of us but not obvious for others. I think that because it is subjective that we really can't teach it without there being issues and agreeance on what we're teaching.
It would be extremely controversial ...
@

@exiled_londoner3 years ago Morality is subjective and contested and any state (or private) education system that tries to 'teach' morality is basically engaging in indoctrination. Teaching kids about how civil society works, basic ethics, epistemology, and mutual respect for oneself and other people is not the same as 'morality' (although there may be some overlap) and it is obvious that the USA suffers greatly from the inability or unwillingness of your education system to deal with these issues - instead you teach them mindless obedience and nationalistic 'patriotism' by getting them to fetishise the national flag and swear oaths of allegiance to a piece of cloth. ...
@

@stevesavage42473 years ago Teaching consent would be good... wouldn't want to be the person trying to develop that course though
@

@jns83933 years ago Morality can discussed in school without making declarations of what is right or wrong. It's the thought processes and critical thinking that needs to be taught. 17
@

@MG-ot2yr3 years ago There was a study that found kids raised in non-religious households were more altruistic than kids raised with religion. 5
@

@Steve-hu9gw3 years ago Okay, former teacher here. Note the correct answer:
A school is a mini society. No school, as no society, can function without the promulgation and maintenance of certain basic ethical standards and goals. Without some basic notions of honoring and respecting human worth and dignity, any society or school quickly devolves into an orgy of unrestrained violence and chaos. Trust me. Even with some basic ethical standards, more days than not … . I speak from experience. To fantasize that teachers can leave all this to parents and guardians at home is precisely that, to fantasize in some la-la land existing solely in one’s own mind. The fact is that, during the school year, children spend most of their waking hours at school. Most of their ethical conflicts will occur at school. Most of their physical and emotional conflicts will occur at school. They must all be dealt with at school. There is no escaping the fact that teachers and administrators will in fact be inculcating and enforcing ethical standards at school. The only question is whether they will do so openly and directly, and whether any kind of course will be set up to address it. I don’t think courses are at all required, but the open discussion, inculcation, and enforcement of basic ethics is very helpful. Just stick to basic more-or-less interpersonal ethics and leave anything specifically religious out of it, to the extent possible.
Yes, I was triggered. ... 6
@

@bidragandeorsak3 years ago Moral is the practice of ethics. Ethics is the theory of moral.
As a Swede, for me it has no religious conotations.
Also, working with kids, you can NOT teach moral. It is in all we are and how we relate to each other. ... 4
@

@stephenland93613 years ago I do recall being taught a smattering of morality in school. However, I think I learned far more about morality by simply interacting with all the other kids, especially on the playground. It was a long process. 1
@

@tommystyx3 years ago Morality is not a class in school it's something you are constantly learning all your life and part of that takes place in school.
@

@blueredingreen10 months ago Morality is learnt by just interacting with others. But it would help to give people formal frameworks so their morality isn't just what they personally feel is right, based on their upbringing (because that's how bad ideas stick around for generations), but that they have some tools to question this (which also helps prevent bad ideas from spreading).
This is also part of critical thinking and skepticism, part of questioning why you do what you do, feel what you feel, believe what you believe, and do what you do. Learning that, I would argue, is much more important than formally being taught morality. ...
@

@artistjoh3 years ago Theists are so blinkered that they automatically assume that the morality they mean is their personal interpretation of their god. As soon as you say “I agree, and I think we should implement the morality of Thor and the Halls of Valhalla immediately” they think that is silly, and they cannot understand that the morality of their god is just as silly. ... 4
@

@JesusUnfollower3 years ago Totally agree. Epistemology should be taught in schools. 2
@

@chainclaw073 years ago This was a good call and distinction ethics vs morality. Also if a theist advocates for their theistic morals being taught just ask if another theistic moral should be taught instead and how do we reconcile that? By presenting and teaching ethics that are demonstrable and can be agreed upon. And not pointing to a faithbased idea because what if I have another faith? ... 1
@

@duncanbryson11673 years ago How about changing the word to ethics? 1
@

@stephenjackson77972 years ago Teach ethics, it is more formal and more definable.
@

@happymaskedguy19433 years ago Morality for me is a question of 'ought to' - it has a rigid, inflexible quality, while at the same time being extremely nebulous (probably why so many theists latch onto it).
As Jim says, the teaching of ethics via epistemology is a much better model, as the fluidity of a question is framed only by its individual or interacting circumstances. It doesn't rely on someone arbitrarily assigning a broad solution based on 'ought to' ideology.
More often than not there is no 'right' answer, which is something theists simply will not tolerate. Uncertainty for them is not an option. ...
@

@Germatti134893 years ago You can teach a child right and wrong by reading stories then discussing what should have been done. They should also go back to teaching kids how to cook, take care of a checkbook/bank statement, and shop. I cut the tip of my finger in shop class but I learned a valuable lesson. 👵 ... 1
@

@mjallen13083 years ago I don’t see why morality can’t be discussed in line with other thought experiments as well as a stand-alone topic related to how to treat ppl that is beneficial to the health and well-being of society even though that doesn’t preclude discussion of selfishness which is not inherently wrong. ...
@

@loodlebop3 years ago Pretty sure morality is taught in school already on a basic level
@

@lukewojtanowicz19913 years ago Kids do learn morality in school, usually from interaction with other kids. 3
@

@rageofheaven3 years ago No, we have a hard enough time teaching kids how to read as it is.
@

@hdub80933 years ago Morality should be taught, yes, but from which perspective? what if it conflicts with the morality kids are being taught at home?... if it's basic morality then it may have a point being taught in schools. Secular ethics miay be a better subject to teach ...
@

@Ablestreet3 years ago You have to first define morality. If you are thinking of using a religious text as the source of morality teaching then the answer is hell no!! 1
@

@Comrade_Tokoloshe3 years ago Morality should be taught by example at home.
@

@Schyla43 years ago For me, since morality is subjective, it would really depend on what we are teaching. We would all have to be in agreement on what we want our kids to be taught. I think most of us could agree on easy topics like murder, but what about moral topics that many people don't agree on? And then the real question is can you even teach morality? Could you teach someone that it's morally wrong to abandon children or is that something they develop themselves to be wrong as they grow older? How would you teach them about morality on subjects like abortion? The answer is obvious for some of us but not obvious for others. I think that because it is subjective that we really can't teach it without there being issues and agreeance on what we're teaching.
It would be extremely controversial ...
@

@exiled_londoner3 years ago Morality is subjective and contested and any state (or private) education system that tries to 'teach' morality is basically engaging in indoctrination. Teaching kids about how civil society works, basic ethics, epistemology, and mutual respect for oneself and other people is not the same as 'morality' (although there may be some overlap) and it is obvious that the USA suffers greatly from the inability or unwillingness of your education system to deal with these issues - instead you teach them mindless obedience and nationalistic 'patriotism' by getting them to fetishise the national flag and swear oaths of allegiance to a piece of cloth. ...
@

@stevesavage42473 years ago Teaching consent would be good... wouldn't want to be the person trying to develop that course though